Branding Trends During and After COVID-19

(hip hop atmosphere music) - All right, welcome to STOKE Sessions. This is a special episode. It's actually the first episode that we're doing completely virtually, so we've got everyone from the home office. We got Jeff Horn, our creative director.

Dave Korinek, founder. DC, executive creative partner, creative director, and Matt Simpson who is our interactive director. So we've got the whole crew on today. It's because we've got something pretty serious that we're talking through.

Obviously there's a lot of uncertainty going on right now with COVID-19. We're seeing it with our clients, we're seeing it with a lot of brands out there, and so we wanted to all get on the phone today and just talk about what are things that brands can be doing tactically, what can they be doing strategically, to help sustain themselves and then also to help get through this, but even grow coming out of this and looking ahead into the future. A lot of good things that we're gonna cover today and we're really excited to jump into it. First off, I wanna just get going with one question for Jeff Horn.

Hopefully I'm not putting you on the spot too much, but just knowing that you're in a home office, can you share two things that you're stoked about with your home setup right now.

- Oh gosh, with my home setup right now I'm looking over my computer at a brand new 50 inch screen that I splurged on that's going to be the display for me. So a surprise to me there. You know, I think having worked from home for a few years now, it's just nice to tidy it up again. I think that's probably one of the nicest parts is you start to get papers that just stack on your desk at home, feels like clutter.

With this quarantine it's forced me to go back and just tidy thing again. Cleanliness and a big badass new display.

- Can't go wrong there. Was that TV something you bought during quarantine?

- [Jeff]

Yes.

- Okay.

- Yes.

- That's a big thing that we're talking about to start off with, that's a perfect segue that we actually did not plan, is talking about how is consumer behavior shifting during this time. Obviously there's a lot of people who are immediately cutting their budgets. Maybe that's not always the right case. Dave, can you jump in here?

I'd love to get your thoughts on what you're seeing. How consumer behavior's shifting, how some of those trends might be here to say, and how that might impact our marketing going forward.

- Yeah, for sure. I mean people may be cutting their budgets, but I can see that you're definitely not cutting your beard there, Trey. Looking good. I saw Matt trimmed his beard up.

Yeah, look, I think what's interesting right now is we're being forced, I think everybody's being forced into more of a digital centric approach to their lives. I think what we've seen, which is really interesting, is that the digital infrastructure of society is there, and I think what people, the way they purchase, the way they shop, the way they bank, the way they communicate, digital has been here for a while and I think the adoption rate has been moving in that direction faster, but I think this just quickly forced us into doing things more digitally and it showed us all that it's possible.

You don't need to leave your house. I mean it's not a good thing or a bad thing, but I think it just showed us that the reality of digital and the way we can do things remote or speak both globally and locally in a way like this is pretty cool. That infrastructure of society has not broken. We can still shop, we can still get groceries, we can still get medicines, we can still get the things that we need all from the comfort of our own home.

Some of us have been maybe doing this for longer, shopping at Christmas on Amazon as opposed to going in stores, but I think the reality for most folks, older and younger, they're starting to see the adoption rate just spike because there's no choice. I think from a consumer perspective you'll see that, but from a business perspective, the businesses or companies that weren't ready for this are definitely suffering.

- Yeah, I think that's a really good point. That's something where it's almost forcing all the businesses, they have to be ready for this now. DC, we were talking a little bit before this on how brands can be thinking strategically, but still acting locally and actually using this as. (audio cutting out) - Yeah, you cut out there Trey, but I think you bought up the conversation that we had previously about brands like how do you win right now in this time and I think it is actually thinking locally and acting locally.

There's a way you can make an immediate impact and win hearts and minds, and I think it's by getting involved with community on a more local level where you can actually make an impact rather than spread too thin and try to continue to market across the globe. How can we make impact in local markets and win hearts and minds.

- I think another thing to throw in there too, like Dave, join to join in on the topic that you're talking about, the digital shift that people are forced to make, brands and businesses are forced to make now. I think one of the things we've seen direct from the frontline is that there's a lot of brands that are ready for this shift into hey, everybody's from home, we have to immediately put our whole workforce from home, our consumers are forced to do any of their purchasing, any of that from home. I think one of the biggest things that I've seen is that a lot of businesses actually, more than I was expecting, that were ready for it, but the people that weren't have spent probably the last two to three weeks trying to figure out their IT infrastructure.

Places that you wouldn't necessarily expect these big businesses have been forced to figure out how to get people working from home. It's been really cool for me to see other businesses like schools for instance immediately put all of the kids online, immediately start using tools like Google Classroom. My kids, seven and nine years old, are starting to use Zoom and they totally know how to do everything in Zoom that I know how to do which is really cool to see. I've been super impressed with education, sporting organizations, things of that nature that have come in and really played hardball really quick in a world that they're not used to.

They're so reliant on physical connection with the kids and with the community, so t's been really cool to see for me.

- One of the things I did notice about being forced into this as well, 'cause we're all consumers as well, is just branding in general. Being a creative a lot of times I choose what I purchase based on research I do, packaging, a lot on packaging, and with using services like Instacart you run away from that a little bit, just wanna know you guys' thoughts about that because you start getting these hey, they're out of this, are you okay with this, and in your mind you're like dude, I don't care what brand it is, I just need this right now. Curious to see you guys' thoughts on where brand isn't playing number one, at least the visual aesthetic of a brand, isn't the first consideration, but I think because visual isn't there doesn't mean a brand isn't important, I still think there's an emotional connection to a brand in areas where they can win without having visibility on their packaging and stuff like that.

- Great point. I was doing that the other day, I said to myself man, how many brands of toilet paper have I bought that I have never purchased before where I don't even know half of these name brands. I don't know what this is, but it's toilet paper, it'll do the trick, you know what I mean? So it is crazy that I think necessity comes in front of brand at times, especially in times of crisis like this.

I think as we get back to the norm I think you'll see that change back again, I mean brand is a luxury right? The product always has to win. I think it has to do its job which we all know from a marketing perspective is, we always say does your product do what it's supposed to do? If it does and it has brand and you have a choice then you can win with it, but I do think it's a good point that in times like this brand is important, but I think it's brand about trust.

Would it be better if, I mean for instance the toilet paper conversation, if there was an overabundance of Charmin toilet paper right now, would I choose Charmin over every other brand? Probably. But there hasn't been right? I think you're seeing a supply and demand thing here at this point.

You can give me a white piece of paper and say it's toilet paper and I'd be like thumbs up, I'm good. I'll make it work.

- I think that brings up an interesting point too is the opportunity that some of the smaller player brands have right now right? To make an impact on an audience that they used to fight for and that they used to not win for right? Like a conglomerate like Charmin right? Then coming in and saying we're gonna own the advertising space, we're gonna own the shelf space because of our relationships with the big box retailers, this gives smaller players a really big opportunity to come in and say hey, we've got a product that works and I think making this an actionable conversation of what brands can be doing right now is really focusing in on what is the impact that your product or service is making and how can you be the most helpful for your consumer base.

That might be a new, you might have an influx of consumers, you might be losing consumers right now. I mean we've got plenty of clients that rely on brick and mortar stores that just straight up aren't opened right now. Obviously there's massive impact there I think. The big thing is to try to highlight opportunities that brands have right now.

I think there's so much time and so much ability to go to work extra hard now that we've got the timing for it in order to prepare for what comes next right?

- Yeah, and it sounds like the common thread that you guys are all getting at is building trust, whether that's visually through packaging or the messaging that you have coming out of the brand. Dan, I'm curious to get your perspective on how branded content can come in, especially during a time like this, 'cause that is one thing, you do have a little bit of control over that. You may not be able to physically get your product into brick and mortar, you may not have control over how customers can actually buy it, but you do have control over how you communicate digitally and how that goes out across different channels.

- Yeah, so I've been talking a lot with a lot of the clients and customers that we have as well as just folks that I know that are in business, CEOs and what they're dealing with 'cause I'm always interested to see, and how can we can help. There's a great Warren Buffet quote that I like which it talks about only when the tide goes out do you discover who's been swimming naked. And a lot of these companies are realizing oh wow, we weren't ready for this. Whatever it was, whether it was a pandemic or whether it was a downturn in the economy, they weren't ready to be digital, they weren't ready with branded content to use for sales like some folks are.

And others that have been, and some of them we've been working with, we've been preparing them for a while to be more digital because we have been replacing media with branded content, things like that. They're seeing a little bit more success than some of these other ones that are scrambling. So I think that branded content is something that is just the new media way to approach, continuing to build your brand no matter what time of year or what the situation is. And it's evergreen right?

It's ongoing and it continues. You don't have to rely on, and again I think when you look at national media and you're running things on TV, even though right now there's no sports, so when people have a captive audience of a sports game or whatever, then they see commercials more, right now they don't have to watch commercials but they're choosing to watch branded content as something on their phones or in social media. So I think what you see as this giant spike in more digital spend and digital usage for brands and business that is very impactful and cost effective in comparison to national media buys and things that we're seeing that the trend has been there.

But I think even more now, just like what we're talking about, you see that the value of a digital spend and that branded content brings to companies is so much of a return for them because it is digital and it's available right now at all times to everybody that's got their phones out looking for something to do.

- I think with that branded content too, there's something I noticed is that it's being done, more and more brands are doing it really well, and in a way that it doesn't feel like you're being advertised to where you feel like you're forcing a brand, it's almost done in a way that the piece feels like it's a piece of entertainment or a piece of something that you actually truly resonate with and connect with. It doesn't feel like hey, this is a piece of branded content but I can tell it's an ad. It's something that comes across very authentic and I think there's companies out there that focus on that and I think it's a huge advantage of how these pieces come together making sure it's authentic to the audience and something that doesn't come across as "marketing" or branding.

- I think another big opportunity there is A, authentic, that's always a huge point of conversation for us when we're producing these things right? And you're absolutely right DC, I think the more endemic it can feel to wherever the audience is that you're placing that branded content is always gonna be huge, but I think especially right now in a time of crisis there's a real big opportunity to provide solutions for people too right? Your product or service, whatever it does, people need that for some reason. Like Dave, you brought up the toilet paper thing, obvious in the US and I think all over the world that's been a crazy hot item that the (mumbles) store has been for quite a few months.

Taking that and looking at what value and what solution does your product or service bring and looking to expose that through branded content because that's exactly what's happening right now. The internet has this crazy influx of traffic for all the people, the kids and the parents that are at home trying to figure out how to get on with their day to day life and do that in a way that's productive for them and helps to relieve some of the stress. I think that branded content can also be poised towards hey, here's something that genuinely solves a problem for you. Here's something, let me explain that to you, let me answer those questions for you so that it shows up as a super helpful thing too.

- Yeah, and on that note to being authentic, being helpful, providing value, I mean that's something that we always talk about our content marketing should be doing. But Jeff, I'm curious to get your take on how, you're thinking about messaging from a branding perspective and a content perspective, how should people be considering their messaging to make sure they're not tone deaf, but at the same time business still has to go on.

- Yeah, that's a great question. You see photos of Madonna posting pictures saying everyone stay safe from her bathtub with roses in it and you're like this person is clearly not connected with reality, you know? So how do you prevent from being tone deaf? I mean it is tricky 'cause you're right, like you said, business has to go on from a purely economical standpoint, which can feel cold and unforgiving to some, it still demands that business go on, that you compete, and that you win.

But from a purely humanity standpoint which is really sorely needed right now, that win at all cost attitude can really feel out of touch. So maintaining differentiation while also advocating for unity and mass resilience against that common enemy, it seems to come down to who's putting the human before their brand? You see, I mean Apple came out with a great ad again this week. Nike put together, it's basically we're all on the same team was the general message of it.

They're both luminary brands that are showing us again how it's done I think. But there is a balance. Upfront we were talking about how are things going to change now that people are in quarantine, now that they're locked behind closed doors here, and maybe the options available to you aren't as numerous as they were. Well from a messaging perspective that would tell me all right, let's communicate just the utility of a brand.

But then you do have this opposite end of the spectrum where you're like all right, let's actually tell something very emotional, tell a story with real feeling, and so the brands that are gonna win are the brands that have been doing it forever I think. The ones that are finding a way to marry utility with story and it doesn't feel forced.

- I think, Jeff, I'll add to that 'cause we've been working a lot with our clients on how to take that filter of understanding the situations, what's going on with the COVID pandemic and their brand and what role do they play in consumer's lives during this point. So we've had a few of our brands, like Ford and whatnot, I mean they sell cars for a living right? And in this time it's hard to sell cars, but they can show that, what we've taken to spin, is we're built Ford tough just like everything. We're gonna be resilient, we're gonna make it through this, and we're gonna be there for you.

Well I mean the nice thing about this is I think we see there's a light at the end of the tunnel here right? This isn't like we're in the middle of a global war or something where we don't know what the end result's gonna look like and it's scary, or recession that we're trying to figure out. I mean we've gotta think about all of those things in the process of doing this, but this one, it seems like there's going to be a point where we're all gonna get released back into the wild right? And I think we are trying to be there and support the customers and the consumers and the audiences with relevant content and just building that brand affinity so when they get back to having a choice between, and the money frees up again and they feel comfortable to spend again, that they'll be ready to spend with us, with those brands, because we were there for them.

We didn't take advantage of the situation. We tried to help them take advantage of the situation and I think that speaks a lot to the way that the companies like Apple and Nike have done that really really well and they'll benefit from it.

- I brought up that idea brands need to be planting seeds right now, not picking fruit, and it seemed to resonate with you and I kinda wanna hear why that resonated with you and what your take on that was.

- Yeah, I mean Jeff, sorry, did you wanna add something to that last little piece there before we go into that, or...

- Believe it or not, I was gonna transition that into DC's quote exactly. So we're on the same page. I'd love to hear more.

- That's awesome. Yeah, so listen, DC, you said something earlier this week that got me spinning my head a bit 'cause it really resonated with me on the idea for companies and brands in general planting seeds and not picking fruit. The idea is, go back to the farming analogy of that, there's time when the ground's fertile to plant seeds for future growth and it's not time to pick that fruit yet. You gotta let it sit in there and age a bit and grow and have some time to become what it is.

I think this is really an important time for brands to self-evaluate themselves right? To take a look back, and one of the big things for us that we do with a lot of companies every day is evaluating their true north and what they're all about and when you're sitting here going brand is important, but is your product what it's supposed to be? Do we have a product that has an infrastructure to survive something like this? Is the cost to goods right?

Is the ability for manufacting all the way to sale, is it in place, is it ready for these types of situations, and am I ready to deal with who I am, if I've just been making it by because we have good product and I haven't really taken time to figure out who we are as a company or as a brand, this is the time to really do that right? It's the time to self-evaluate and look at those pieces of your business, including digital, and say what can I do better to plant better seeds for tomorrow? This isn't gonna go away, I think this is going to basically, what I believe it's gonna do is expedite digital into realtime, real life situations now.

When we come back from this, digital is gonna be stronger than ever and I think the folks that don't, the companies that don't self-evaluate and redefine themselves to be ready to take on the world that way will eventually select themselves out of the mix naturally. You have to evolve your business to meet the needs. This isn't about digital transformation that we gotta do. This is, it's already here, and if you don't transform the way you do business, you won't be in business.

- Yeah, and there's several examples of brands out there that are making an impact, they're not even necessarily within their own business vertical. There are opportunities to plant those seeds even outside of, it's like, the New England Patriots took their team out to China to pick up a million face masks. Our own client, Koi CBD right? They transformed their manufacturing line on a dime and started producing hand sanitizer.

So there's opportunities to really remain relevant and tap into that humanity even if it's not within your own business vertical. If you're trying to earn trust and continue planting seeds, great time to do it. Sometimes you just gotta be creative with your means.

- Yeah, I think too with that whole concept, the idea of being there for your consumers, not trying to exploit them or take advantage of them, but truly being there for them, planting those seeds. When this is all said and done months from now, years from now, you're gonna harvest a lot more fruit when it comes down to it. We're putting in the work now, we're gaining customers, we're building trust, but in the end it's not saying you're not gonna ever get that root, it's more of an investment idea of hey, I'm gonna be here for the people, I'm gonna be here for my consumers, and hopefully down the road they're gonna be there for me.

I don't know, I thought that just resonated. I think it's a financial analogy too of it's easy when you get money to spend it, spend it, spend it, but if you invest invest invest, that money will be there down the road. I don't know, I thought it was a really cool concept of thinking about how can we be there for consumers and not be there to exploit them or constantly be thinking about the sell sell sell right now instead of support support support.

- I think there's something to be said too for the brands who already did a good job of planting seeds and they're able to continuously harvest and they're, it's basically mitigating the risk that they have and that's what content's all about, that's what building a brand is all about. I've been thinking about this a lot lately where if you really have an engaged following, regardless of what your product is, you can almost view it as a media company. If all of a sudden you can't get to brick and mortar, but you have a huge e-mail list, then you can start exploring other revenue opportunities in the meantime.

You can look into digital events, you can get into affiliate revenue and things like that. I think there's definitely something to be said for some of the brands that have already built a really engaged audience and did a good job of branded content lead up into this, but Matt, I'm curious to get your perspective on just the digital side or content marketing side of how can brands start planting those seeds now so that they can harvest later in the future as things start to get back to a new normal?

- For sure, yeah. I think one of the big things that Dave hit on, and Jeff as well, is defining yourself, defining your voice, your tone. Having a good strategic viewpoint of who you are that helps direct any of your content marketing initiatives. But I think again, going towards some of the utility sides and some of the opportunities that are the quickest winners, I think really trying to help consumers understand what your product or service is give them the answers that they're constantly looking for and supply that up front for them.

That's always gonna take a huge huge huge impact in the trust that you're building with your current consumers and your potential consumers, so I think things like highlighting up front really quick, problem/solution scenarios, what are the features and the benefits, what's the real time benefit to what you've got available from your product or service and putting that right up front. Finding out things like your pricing strategy, a lot of times people have a tough time defining and putting that type of information online, but I think it's one of the first things that consumers will grade you on is whether or not you have a good solid and understandable pricing strategy upfront, and if your pricing strategy is higher than your competitor or lower than your competitor, explaining why, then kinda giving that information.

One trick that, it's not even a trick, it's just more of a strategy, is highlighting your competitive landscape and showing who your competitors are directly on your website because again as we talk about digitizing your business or this digital evolution and how that plays into content marketing, people are smart online. They can do a Google search really quick and figure out who the top three contenders are for the product or service that they're offering right? Highlighting those competitors on your own website and putting that right up front and center is a scary thing to do for a lot of businesses, but it's also a really smart thing to do because you start ranking your content for competitive terms and when people start googling your competitor, if you're doing a better job of content marketing, throwing in best practice SEO in there, you actually start ranking for terms that people are searching for on your competitor's site.

There's a few different things that you can do. I think getting started, it's really good to outline a bit of sales funnel. I think going from what are the things, what are the topics that you can be posting on your website that are kinda top of funnel, that ae illustrating the problem and solution, working down the funnel and getting more towards decision-making and starting to again get to the point where they have a few options that they're considering and highlighting the benefits of each of those and then obviously making sure your sales funnel is ready to roll and you're not hiding how to sign up for your product or service or how to buy your product or service.

I think we spent a lot of time on conversation rate optimization and a lot of times the simplest things and the most obvious things are the things that you forget about. You can really make a lot of really quick tweaks on your website that make a dramatic impact on sales or leads, anything like that. The other thing that's a really hot topic on my mind right now is customer service because I think somebody brought up these brands, Trey I think it was you that brought up the brands that have sewn the land, and they planted the seeds and they're in ever harvest mode right now. There's a lot of brands like that, there's a lot of brands that aren't like that, but I think the tying thread between all those is customer support and that's what, in my mind, a lot of people are really needing right now is they're needing support.

People are frustrated, people are scared. Everyone on the planet is either scared about being sick, or is sick, or scared about money being tight or money is tight. Here in America we've got something like 15 million people that are currently on unemployment. There's a lot of stress and a lot of anxiety in the world and I think making sure that your brand is offering relief from that however you can through customer support is a really big opportunity for everyone, and I think doing that and doing that in a good humanized way is going to help to win minds long term.

I think that's, again, tying into what Dave said, helping people to really get to the point where it's like hey, you might not be so focused on making the sale now, but winning the minds and the hearts of the people now is gonna create those sales long term. I think customer service is a really big place to do that and I think there's a lot of companies that are doing it really well right now, you know? Easy example is Chase Bank. Chase Bank and a lot of the banks, due to coronavirus and COVID-19 and the whole thing, a lot of people are freaking out, going to the bank, getting all their money, they're doing weird deposits, weird transfers and things of that nature, and because of that we've seen the call centers just get blown up right?

People are calling in constantly and that's a huge frustration, you can waste a lot of time on the phone trying to figure out what are the bank hours, can I come in, how much money can I withdraw, things of that nature. And I think Chase has done a really good job of everywhere you look, whether you're on their website or on their app or any of that, they've got this big huge message that says look, call times are horrible right now. Here's the ways that you can contact us without using the call center. I think just doing that, relieving that frustration from a mass market of consumers, especially with something as sensitive as money right now, is again one of those things where it's a really simple theme, but it's a really impactful thing on a lot of people that helps to relieve some of the stress.

- I'll add a little bit to that, Matt. I think you mentioned something earlier which I think is the underlying theme for me that I'm seeing the businesses that are winning or that are going through this and winning is the companies that have taken some time to really do some strategy around their businesses right? This is where the companies that get caught with their pants down, they really just have been going with the flow and they haven't really been strategic about the way they're running their business or future proofing their business. And a lot of what you're talking about, moving things to digital, customer service to digital, those will impact the future of those businesses for sure.

I don't think Chase will go back, they probably started working towards that a while back and now they suddenly got an influx of it so they have to deal with this volume. Even if you look at, look at Amazon. Amazon to me is reaping the benefits of setting up a great infrastructure and scalability to be able to get product to people, I mean that was the one thing I think I've been so proud of to see our country be able to still deliver. Still produce the supply and demand of things even though things are running out, that system is there.

You can get food, you can get supplies, you can get medical devices, CVS can deliver your meds to your home, and it still worked. And I think that, take technology, imagine if we were having this conversation, it wouldn't be via Zoom it'd be over a campfire if all technology went out right? (laughing) If somebody had pulled the plug on that this would be a whole different conversation. I think we should be considering those types of things.

Can we be digital and can we still function in structure, but the strategy behind the companies that are reaping the benefits, they put time into this right? This wasn't just dumb luck. It was planned and facilitated and thought through very well in order to be prepared for these times and situations. I think you're seeing, again, it's been shifting for a while, Ubers of the world and Amazons of the world have come in and changed the dynamic to more technology focused companies that deliver on technology, but they don't talk about it as technology, it's just they're using to change the way we do business.

It's more like an evolution of, it's not even digital transformation, it's just digitizing the things that we've done a certain way, in a new way. But I think companies need to look at that. They need to look deep at how they can view that better, how can sales guys that are going out and making on-site calls can change the way that they do that by using more digital centric automatic tools that they can get in front of people the same way without even showing up. And they can make just as much an impact.

I think that's what you're seeing is the folks that have spent some time to do the strategy behind why their business exists, how can they impact the world in many ways, and continue to evolve, like we talk about it as true north as a business, we set that truth north out there and that means that you're constantly striving to achieve this truth north. You're not there. True north is a place that you're trying to reach, you don't always hit that mark, but it's guide points for you or guideposts to get you there. And in times like now, this is this time to turn to that strategy and say as a company, based on what we had been doing from a strategic perspective, how can we adapt to this situation, and if you don't have that?

I mean imagine the frenzy that you'd be going through right now. I think, I'm really excited to see the brands that are brave enough to spend the time and effort to put the strategy in place, to be ready for times like this, to say what should we do as a company in a time like right now based on what our strategy as a business is. And those are the ones I think that will probably reap the most fruit at the end of this like we've talked about.

- I think also Dave, to hit on that, you gotta talk about that idea of courage too. You gotta have the courage to wanna reach out and say dude, I'm in this deep, there's stuff I'm dealing with, where do I look for to have somebody help me, to have somebody workshop this, have somebody ideate this with me of which way should I pivot? How should I be adaptable? So I think it's also having the courage to reach out for help and not just figure I gotta come up with all the answers myself.

- Yes, and Dave, strategy's such a nuanced topic. It's hard to get super actionable coming out of it, but can you talk through a little bit about a potential framework if someone was to use this time to take a step back and really start thinking about their strategy from a brand and business perspective? What are some of the things that they should be thinking through?

- Absolutely. I mean look, we jumped on a call today to have a big discussion about everything and I think one of the things you can do is spend more time communicating about it right? You wanna setup some guidelines. We typically do what we call a brand workshop which would be like a one day session where you're really diving into some of the challenges the business is facing.

Not just from, again take out the situation we're currently and just talk about the business and what they maybe been struggling with or challenged with to start with, and looking at all the stakeholders, talking to customers, I think DC made a great point. Everybody's open and willing to have conversations. If you reach out to a customer base and say we wanna make our service, our product, our whatever better for you the consumer, give us some input, you know how many people are willing to give input? A lot.

It's only about connecting to the actual audience. Instead of sitting in a board room and figuring out what you think is the right thing to do, I think really involving your consumers and your audience too and reuse the data and insights from them to really make things better is something that I don't think enough companies really do. I think we've seen quite a huge impact when we've done that, and when we typically do we've made it a part of our strategy phase when we're doing research and discovery to absolutely include customers into the mix. There's a framework that you can go through that really analyses, somewhat of a smart analysis, it's customer, it's landscape, it's market.

Looking at what other companies are doing, who's winning, who's losing, what you find a lot of times in the business world of different categories, you find a lot of people saying a lot of the same things. And it's really hard for a customer, or really an audience, to understand and to trust you when everybody's saying "we're the global leader in" X right? So I think we've seen enough of that where we're trying to be a mirror to most of these companies out there to say let's be honest about this, let's talk about it, because consumers aren't stupid and our audiences aren't dumb. We really need to find a way to be honest and transparent and show the value to them that we offer them.

So we always use that so what kind of mentality as okay, well we do this, well so what? What does that mean and how does that affect the customer and what does that mean to them? What does that mean to you as a business? And I think, so breaking it all down really, get it down to its base root, and that's what I think this is, as crazy as this time has been, this opportunity allows us this ability to break ourselves down a little bit.

I think personally, as a business, as individuals, we can take some time to self-evaluate, business evaluate, and say what have we been doing wrong. There's a lot of wasted time that I've seen in my day now that I've been stuck quarantined at home, that I'm being so much more productive by certain things and certain times in my day than I was before. I'm not gonna change that, I'm gonna make a change, and businesses can probably do the same thing right? Whether it's workforce or whether it's the way that they were doing business, they're finding efficiencies now that they probably never knew that they had because they're forced to find them and that is gonna change the way that we all do things in life and in business and in relationships.

I think it's really important to take a look at that. And you don't have to be in person to do that. I think that's the real interesting part. So Trey, I think the answer is really spending some time taking the deep dive and really truly doing a self-evaluation.

It's like, DC you've talked about this before, what's the hut you go in where, the smoke huts, the Indian smoke outs, what are they called?

- Yes. Sweat lodge.

- Sweat lodge, so you need to go into a brand sweat lodge and figure this stuff out, man. Let's get down to brass tacks and be honest about it. Because I think that's where you can, it's a time to jump in this cocoon of sorts to emerge a slightly different company than when you came out of this. If we don't learn from the mistakes and the things that we were doing before in this time, then we're not gonna evolve and change our businesses and we're gonna maybe be right back where we were, and so I think I would challenge every business out there, every company out there, to rethink their strategy, to rethink their business, and make sure that they're doing everything the best that they can so that they can benefit as a business and for their audience and their customers to do that as well.

- I think, just to add to that really quick, I think that's so eloquently said Dave, and I think it's like you take two of the topics that we've been discussing, one being the utility and the other being the storyline and bringing an authenticity to both of those, and then adding purpose which I think is the root of what you're talking about and emerging so much more powerful and so much more poised to make an impact on your market.

- Yeah, and that brings up a point that we get asked all the time, and Jeff I don't wanna put you on the spot, but this is a tough one to answer. Do you have any actionable advice on how does a brand come across as authentic?

- You know, I think...

Maybe just pulling the thread off of what Dave was talking about earlier where it is really hard right now to go out and say hey, we're the number one global X, that's why you should go with us, or we're the best, or we're the most XYZ. Stop talking about we. Stop talking about me, stop talking about I. If you wanna feel authentic, which really the purpose of authenticity I would say in branding, not to reduce it, but is to build trust right?

You wanna be authentic, you wanna build trust? Start talking about you. Seriously, it is the easiest way tactically I'd say from a messaging perspective. It is so ridiculously simple I almost hesitate to share it, but it is the easiest way to demonstrate that you are in touch with people, or that at least demonstrate a sense of empathy, is that changing all the Is or wes or mes to you.

It is that simple. Because I'm telling you, every single word that you put in your brand's lexicon is going to have an emotional impact. Every word. The word I is gonna have a different impact than the word you does on people.

It's simply a fact. One of the most common, it might be one of the most common mistakes I think that we probably recommend to almost every client or brand is just simply swapping out the word. I mean for example, we have the greatest PDF compression tool on Earth. Great, cool statement.

But how about if I told you you have the greatest PDF compression tool on Earth? Tell me which one of these feels more empowering, which one of these feels more like I'm actually trying to solve your problem, or that I'm actually in touch with my audience, it's simply by changing that one single word from I to you, and we could even run through another parlor trick if we wanted to, I don't know if we have time, but it is that easy. I think that's probably the first recommendation I would make almost on any content audit or any brand audit. You're trying to increase your level of authenticity, you're trying to build trust especially in a time like now where trust and happiness are in short supply.

Change your mes, wes, are ours to yous.

- Yeah, I wanna add to that Trey. I think just simply put, being authentic is about being honest with yourself and with your customer right? I mean that's what Jeff's basically saying. When you're being authentic you don't have to try to be authentic, if that makes sense right?

Being authentic is just being who you are and offering up something that someone needs by being the business and the company that you are right? And that honest relationship you create is what builds trust. You realize that I'm not trying to sell you anything. I mean some of the best relationships I've had over the years with customers and clients and friends that have become friends over time is that, just honest with them.

It's like you don't need to spend this kind of money to do this right now. It's a waste of your time and your money. What you should be doing is this. And this is what I would do if this was my money and my budget, and this is what you should do.

I think just that straight conversation, being straight about what's going on and understanding the situation that the business or the customer and audience is needing, and finding where you live and where you add value to that situation is what is authentic right? You can't be something that you're not. Does that make sense? You cannot force yourself upon anyone to buy something that if they don't need, and be "authentic," it's just it right?

Drives me nuts during a time like now where I see people hitting you up, selling you things, they're just taking advantage of a situation, and whether they're fearmongering to you or whatever that may be, that really saddens me. In a time right now where there really shouldn't be partisan lines, there's shouldn't be anything other than what's best for us as a people and as a society. How do we move forward, and I think in a time like this it's the ones that drop all of that and just focus on helping each other out that are being transparent and honest and authentic. I think the shortest answer is the only way to be authentic is to be real and to be honest with people, with yourself and with your audience.

- Jeff, not to harp on words or anything, but there's always that actions are louder than words and Dave I know you always say, have this whole concept of show me don't tell me and I think that's a big thing for brands to do right now. If you're gonna make an impact, show me and let other people talk about you as a brand and what you're doing. Don't tell me what you're gonna do and not follow through. Be out there, do something.

Do something that causes positive outcomes or do something that helps people.

- Yeah, don't say hey I'm funny. Let somebody else tell you you're funny or you're hilarious right? I mean I think that's the point right? It's like that's a funny, he's a funny guy right?

You're right on there. I think actions speak louder than words. I think a lot of times people forget that and they expect that, this goes to Jeff, we talk about this all the time, features and benefits right? Stop talking about features, you know?

Features are for how do I plug this thing in and what setting should I have it at to get the most out of it? Benefits are why I buy it. So I think, to the point Trey, transparency is, it's about supply and demand. It's about need versus want, it's about creating an understanding of what does an audience want and need out of my product or service?

And if I can show them that I have a reason for being in their home, in their space, in their work or whatever, and it's a viable reason to be there, then I'm winning because I'm creating something that you need and want and demand. I think a lot of the stuff we talk about here, content marketing, branding, strategy, is all about really seeing where's our place in this world right? Where does this product or service fit in people's lives, and then how do we just show them that by putting in a situation where they can understand hey that's something I want or need, not let me sell this to you right?

I love The Wolf of Wallstreet where the guy's like sell me this pen right? He'd say sell me this pen, and then finally he takes the pen and he says hey, I want you to sign this check and he says well gimme me your pen and he goes well I'll sell it to you for a million dollars. Now he's created this need, he needs this pen to make this happen right? Point is I think when it comes down to it, this is what we're facing right now in this critical time is people are having to take a look in the mirror and going man, we could probably do some stuff better and they have to spend some time to do that and really be honest with themselves so that they can be honest with where the business can go and what they need to do to change that.

- And I think just to riff on this with you guys, that concept of show don't tell, focusing on the showing part is using video too. That's a huge part of it. That's what we're doing right now. Tell me you don't see Jeff Horn's living room and that instantly makes him more relatable and authentic, even if he's got a big ass TV but we can't see it, so I don't know if it's really there or not.

- It's there, it's there, I promise you. (laughing) - I think video, and especially maybe less formal high production video kinda like what we're doing right here is just gonna explode over the next few months and continuously onward.

- Right, and you see it, like you saw Saturday Night Live. I don't know if you guys saw it this past week. They did a whole Zoom episode. That's, you know what, I kinda wanted to bring that up with you guys 'cause it, just broadly, we traffic in creativity and I think it's been just, fairly broadly speaking, not even just within advertising, you've seen amazing examples of creativity at home.

And I just wanted to ask you guys, do you feel that that is more people are being generally more creative, or do you think that's just the emphasis on the spotlight on creativity are shining brighter right now that everyone is stuck in place?

- I'll jump in. I actually think there has been an increase in creativity and I think it's due to downtime. You have a lot more time to think, you have a lot more time to ponder, you have a lot more time to let ideas sizzle. When we're in our routine, and everybody's just been thrown out of a routine for the most part.

Everybody has a routine, and when you go through your routine you have these expectations to how your day's gonna go and there's not a lot of room for thought or reflection. I think a lot of people are having more time in their day to think through things and ponder ideas and come up with stuff that is creative. You see it from everything from people posting dances that go viral and every person's learning these dances to campaigns from some of the biggest grants that are just like wow, that just, I felt like we just got into this quarantine and there's already these campaigns going out that are just like, that came together super fast.

I actually think there is an increase in creativity.

- Matt, you were gonna say something there?

- Yeah, no, I agree. DC kinda hit on it. I think the thing that I've noticed is that family is together, you think about your routine, just like you're talking about DC, and you go through that routine, and the thing that people are always looking for is that little moment of downtime where they can check their phone, scroll through social media, do whatever it is and turn their brain off for a second and just like hey, I've had a crazy busy day, we've had whatever going on at work and through the family and then sports and everything else, whatever your routine is, and then you get those little glimmers of downtime and you really take advantage of those right?

Well I think the majority of the world has gotten too many of those glimmers in the last couple weeks and all of a sudden they're like man I can't have my face in my phone anymore, let me look up and see the world for what it is and get lost in those childish, creative endeavors that are just out of a necessity for entertainment right? I think it's a big thing of seeing a lot of, I mean dude, I've been so stoked lately to drive around the neighborhood, or I've been going on bike rides every day with my family, you see all these people that are out doing the same thing and it's so healthy to see that and to experience that.

Full families all over the place that are out there getting exercise, doing the simple things in life, and I think that's the derivative of creativity right? Or the root of creativity I guess.

- Yeah, I mean it's interesting, right Matt? I mean I think the bottom line there is that time is more available to use than it probably was before right? I just think back two months ago going I just don't have enough time in the day to do all this stuff, I just don't have enough time to, I was laughing at a meme that said well, I guess I better figure some other things out 'cause all I like to do is go out to eat, go to kids sports, and touch my face and I can't do any of those things right now, so I have all this extra time in my life. And I think that's true, man.

I think you're seeing a really cool resurgence of, I spent more time having dinners with my kids and my family, the entire family, than we have in forever, and it's really really cool to reconnect, and I think we get our noses down in our phones a lot and we get focused on it. Here's an opportunity where we've learned to reprioritize things in our lives. I think, again back to the point of more efficient, I wanna be more efficient with my life and the things that I do, I wanna help businesses be more efficient so that we can free up more time to do these great things we've actually been doing.

And I'm not saying I'm not gonna jump out of the house and go out to dinner with the family as soon as I can 'cause I will, but I guess I'm realizing what I need and what we want right? Those are very different. I mean think about the amount of spending we're doing, the amount of gas we haven't bought. The things, because we're just home and doing these things, and so that socially is changing a lot of the way we are as people and with that changes the needs and the wants as well.

It's just a really, I think Matt, DC, and Jeff hit on really interesting topics there of the way we're perceiving this time and how creative we can be to make the most of it. And I think that's really encouraging to me as well is that the world didn't end. We may have changed where we're doing the things we're doing and how we're connecting and how we're doing business, but we are a resilient country of people that are innovative, intelligent, and we can find ways to do what we do. I mean it's like I think the joy of being in a country where we have so many great luxuries and when some of them are taken away, we still find ways to make it happen and I think that's what makes it great.

It's invigorated I think a lot of us to embrace, when we have some of those things back, to appreciate them, but even more than ever I think it's like you wanna support those brands that are doing a great job making that real for you now and focusing on those things as well.

- Yeah, that's such an amazing note I think to start drawing to a close here. Just to add to that too, I was talking about this with my wife earlier today actually that this is almost like the one time in human history that we actually can almost weather a storm like this. If this had happened 15 years ago, the majority of businesses couldn't go digital like they can today. Little bit of gratitude and a silver lining you can find in this is at least we have some of the digital tools and technologies, like you say, to keep making it happen and have business go on.

Matt, maybe you can help close us out. For businesses who are looking for a quick takeaway, something actionable, tactical that they can start doing right now to help them weather the storm, what are some, and everyone jump in obviously, but Matt you can lead us off, what are some of the things you might recommend that people could start implementing today?

- Yeah, I've got...

I've got two big things, I think we've already touched on these, so I won't spend a lot of time on them, but I think the two big things for me are listen and communicate. People are vulnerable right now and that's a pretty big opportunity to listen to what they're vulnerable to and then implement what you hear from that into your product or service. I won't go too in depth on that 'cause I feel like we've been talking a lot about that as well. The next one is to communicate.

I think the over-communication right now is huge and doing that with whatever channels you have available to you. We spend a lot of time with companies that are looking for hey, how can we drive more traffic to our online presence, how can we generate more eyeballs, all of that. A lot of times the answer is simpler than it might seem. I think just communicating the things that are important to your customers through what you hear is gonna do exactly that.

You don't have to have a huge call center, you don't have to have a hundred person support team. You can turn to the fact that you do have time right now and start putting a lot of those things online. By nature people will find that and be more attracted to your brand, product, or service. I think those are two big things.

We do have a couple of free tools that I wanted to throw out there and we'll link them here in the show notes. One is a really cool content audit. If you've got a website and you wanna learn about the overall health of your website, I just wanna put a plug to that because it's a really cool tool that allows you to just go through and really quickly audit the content that you have on your entire domain, figure out what's working for you really well, and then gives you a little bit of a roadmap on how to tweak that and make it more beneficial for your customers.

- I'll add a little bit to that too Trey. I think what I'm exciting about is seeing how we all grow from this experience right? I think, times like this put everything in perspective. Sometimes we need an event at this magnitude to facilitate change for the better.

And I think it's time to cleanse bad habits, business practices, and reinvent ourselves in a good way. That's the real long term benefit that we can take out of this whole mess that's been going on. I think to Matt's point, along with from a digital perspective, taking a look and really auditing your brand a bit is something that we can do for companies pretty easily by looking at their digital, we're looking at their brand, their social, their messaging strategy, and evaluating them really quickly, we can give you an idea of where your strengths and weaknesses are. So while you're going through this time, if that's something that someone might need, it's something that we can engage pretty easily and digitally with you and with companies out there, so something to consider.

If it sounds too daunting to take on yourself, our persona as magnetic as the torch bearer because we do this all day long and I'd love to be something, that we can be a resource for folks out there that are challenged by this who wanna come out on top. Very exciting times to take advantage of right now.

- I mean if I could offer any prescription, I guess in a word it would just be empathy. And you're gonna hear that word thrown around a lot for the rest of 2020. And hopefully for good reason. But I don't know that the word is actually really fully understood.

Empathy has nothing to do with your opinion, or even the objective truth. Empathy is the other person's point of view. Just by understanding that other person's point of view, or just showing that you're trying to understand the other person's point of view, it creates this trust and mutual respect that's gonna enrich all of your relationships. That's not just brand to consumer, I mean that's person to person.

It's coworkers, families, and friends. I know it's a broad prescription, but empathy.

- All right, I think that's a pretty killer note to end on. I think the last notes that I had to share, just one thing to cap it off, is be scrappy as well. I think one of the biggest things brands can do is don't worry about right now. If your idea scales or how it's gonna last in the future, but make things happen right now.

Help customers right now. Use video. Explore partnerships with influencers, whatever you've gotta do to make it happen, but just keep that mentality of being scrappy, helping people, being empathetic. I mean think we've been repeating ourselves.

This thread just keeps coming through. The brands that are winning are the ones that are planting seeds, they're helping people, and they're staying true to themselves and to the brand. I think that's a great note to end on. Thank you so much guys, this has been really fun for me and been a fun conversation.

I know we've been talking about this for a while, but glad we finally got to jump on and record it.

- Definitely, yeah. Thanks for doing that Trey, good stuff. And yeah, if anybody's out there that's got questions, needs help, wants input, that's what this is all about. We're a community.

We care about, and I think to Jeff's point, we care about those around us, we love to see and nurture businesses through this by just giving feedback, insights, whatever we can, of things to look at, and we're here for you. So reach out, drop us a note, and let's connect. Stay safe out there and we look forward to having another conversation where the businesses are taking off again, the world's booming again, and stuff's back to normal. But until then, take care of yourselves out there.

- All right, cheers guys. (hip hop atmosphere music)